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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Trying to decide whether this quest is worth doing on my alt rogue.

Considering ill be looking at getting the 2 Bot daggers (17/24 & 16/21) it just doesnt seem worth doing unless the worn effect of the ragebringer outweighs the ratios of the other weapons?

Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:20 pm 
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1. YES
2. Its an EPIC
3. It is the easiest epic to get - you can do it in a couple days
4. It drips poison
5. It is called RAGEbringer enough said
6. The atk mod is great
7. Off hand 40% Haste
8. YES

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Last edited by lyradeq on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:29 pm 
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Yeah, why not! It's easy, it's fun, and in some AC vs. ATK scenarios it might even outdamage that vile DoT-proccing shank.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Rogue offhand damage is still less than 30% of overall DPS (or less) for a rogue, even after you're 65 and have all the Ferocity and Ambidexterity AAs. Even before then, your offhand DPS is a joke.

The 40 ATK from Ragebringer > you having a 17/24 offhand by a wide margin, especially versus high-AC Luclin content. Where else are you going to get 40 ATK (Vengance VIII) from gear for an alt? It'd take a LOT of VT rotloot to make up for that. And, as Lyrad said, it's 40% haste.

There is no easier epic weapon to get. I've personally done 5 Rogue epics so far on Al'Kabor (1 for my rogue, 1 to MQ as a thank-you for a guildie, 2 for High Elf masks for my rogue and a bard friend, and a 5th that's bagged and ready to go). None of them have taken me longer than a RL day.

Once you have one, the difficult thing will become replacing all the wonderful things it does for you, should you try to replace it. Promise.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:49 pm 
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Ok nice to know, thanks.

Another question, allahs is saying i can bypass the first part of the quest by looting the 2 daggers. Is this correct for our sever? How often does the General drop the Quill?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:53 pm 
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Oh and what is the minimum level that i can complete this?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Darco,

You need to be 50 to start the quest, though technically a level 50+ toon can summon Stanos for you, but it's touch & go as to whether a sub-50 toon can complete the handins (I've heard he'll eat handins from under-levelled toons). Just get to 50 if you want to be safe.

The General has dropped ONE Quill that I know of on AK, so start farming robes early and often instead.

You'll need the General's Pouch, JDD, and Quill to complete the quest. Little else really matters. A reliable walkthrough I've used can be found HERE. I start with the pickpocketing of notes, and go from there.

Hope that helps.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:13 pm 
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I'd also recommend it, even though at this point (maxed ATK and haste on other worn items) I only use it occasionally for a little bit of extra PR for certain fights. Once you obtain the Escape AA and try to incorporate it into your fighting/raiding style, I'd recommend ditching the Wicked Shank. Gargoyle Talon is really nice though, as is Vyzh`dra's Render of Souls for secondary if you can get it. Loved my Khalshazar too.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:59 pm 
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I think this is one of the most over looked 2nd hand weps. http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=8836 Its ratio is comparable to some of the best weps out there, and drops off xtc in ssra.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:46 pm 
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punchem wrote:
I think this is one of the most over looked 2nd hand weps. http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=8836 Its ratio is comparable to some of the best weps out there, and drops off xtc in ssra.


Awesome ratio i agree, but it makes no difference what the offhand delay is as long as its lower than my primary delay. Is that the correct thinking? It's been a while since I've played a mellee.

Eg 17/24 primary 14/23 offhand would be exactly the same as 17/24 primary 14/17 offhand.

So to make full use of that weapon you'd want a pretty low delay primary too right?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:52 pm 
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I think by the time you have the relevant AAs your off hand goes by the delay of the weapon.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:13 pm 
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I was told that offhand is always the same set delay, no matter what the actual weapon delay is. So it doesn't matter what the weapon delay is if you use it offhand. There's just so much conflicting information around. That's why my eyes glaze over when this stuff gets discussed... /snore

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:26 pm 
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IIRC, dual wield will perform a check every time you swing with your primary (not counting double attack riposte etc). If that check is successful, it will check to see if the offhand is 'ready' to swing. If the delay of your offhand weapon is lower (or maybe even equal to) than your primary weapon it will always be 'ready'. If the delay is higher than your primary, it will not swing and you'll have to wait till the next round before you have a chance to perform an offhand swing.

This is how i remember it, i could be totally wrong. I mean if the extra delay meant nothing, everyone would be wielding Wurmslayers in their off hands right?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Lol first our stats dont matter and now delays dont either. Im just gonna go for looks from here on =)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:06 am 
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The offhand operates more or less* independently of the primary hand for dual wielding purposes, I believe, Darco. Otherwise, it'd be essential to use an offhand weapon with delay equal to or slightly less than your main hand weapon (unless you have a weapon that's twice your primary hand delay) to avoid losing 50% of your offhand attacks. That's not the case.

(*I've heard it suggested that this is actually slightly more complicated in that the DW check occurs at fixed intervals but causes your weapon to swing at its normal delay during "successful" intervals, but I'm not sure this is correct, and if it is, the consequences for weapon delay preference are real but fairly minor.)

Rys, I'm thinking what you might have heard about the offhand is not that damage is all that matters, but that *ratio* is all the matters. The primary hand gets a damage bonus that doesn't scale with delay (not for one-handed weapons, that is), meaning that faster weapons perform somewhat better than their ratios would indicate in the primary hand.

Hence the regular admonition that you want to give slight preference to faster (lower delay) weapons in the primary hand, and go entirely for an efficient (high damage:delay ratio) weapon in the offhand.

The biggest complication is delay rounding. Some delay numbers are just "better" than others at a given haste percentage; for example, at 100% haste, a 20 delay weapon and a 19 delay weapon have *exactly* the same delay. See the table Cromis has worked out back home, or check this Steel Warriors post for a more limited version).

Proc and proc rate can also tip the scales when looking at two fairly similar weapons, and for rogues, of course, backstab complicates the primary hand picture since BS is tied to weapon damage but not to weapon delay.

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