EQMac.com

Definitely a grey area but in summary it is definitely your opinion

I'll be sure to mentally note the difference between asking anyone to tag along becuase we already own a mob and getting an extra bard for an AOE dragon on board which would "spoil the kill" from being done in guild. Who cares? Ok we'll call such a person a recruit then.

SoN is not a raiding guild but we are a guild that raids, quite successfully I might add for being a group of mostly casual players. I am proud of the fact that I can balance my play time with real life, or rather I am forced to do this since I have yet to convice my boss that playing EQ should be included as a job requirement. There is no comparison betwen Temerity and Shield of Norrath, nor do we want to ever compete on "accomplishments" made on this server. We are here to have fun and progress through the tiers on our own schedule and soon we will have slain several tier 2 mobs once thought impossible for such a guild.

From now on any out of guild players along with us for raids will be considered potential future recruits and of course we would own the mob without them.

Sardak Soulbringer
Level 61 Dwarven Paladin (16 AA)
Shield of Norrath Raid Leader

As someone from a smaller "guild that raids" and has raided in the past with several other guilds, and as someone who adores most people in SoN, I must respectfully disagree with you Sardak.

However you want to phrase it, SoN is now a raiding guild. It has become, from this outsiders persepective, your raison d'etre. You proudly announce every major new kill you get. Your stated goal is "to have fun and progress through the tiers." This is not the goal of a "family guild" or a guild that raids, but the goal of guild that wants mob notches in its belt.

There is of course nothing wrong with this, just as there is nothing wrong with calling your guild a raiding guild, just as there is most certainly a valid comparison to be made between Temerity and SoN. Saying there is no comparison doesn't make it so. The reality is that the guild philosophies with regards to outsiders and loot sharing is bound to be compared by others. Likewise, the emphasis placed on raiding is bound to be compared.

You may not be interested in competing for bragging rights as to which guild has killed what level of mob, and this largely a good thing in my opinion. Competition seems silly and ultimately pointless. The main thing, as you have said, is to have fun. Most would agree that SoN has a huge amount of that, not to mention guild pride and great loot as well. But really, you are a raiding guild now, as ilustrated by your weekly announcements of new conquests and your goal of tier advancement. I would even venture to guess that some people join you specifically because you raid successfully, just as some might leave because you emphasize raiding.

_________________
Duchess Lana Mercyhand
Lord Protector of Destiny
Grandmaster Baker/Brewer
Tanks for the memories
~moejoe chamois, 65 shaman~|~cambria silverfir, 65 druid~|~magella summner, 55 mage~

I think most people would agree that Shield of Norrath and Temerity have different styles and different goals, but mostly it is a matter of degree and style than substance.

Almost all EQ players have advancement as a goal. The only players I can think of who don't are the ones who open up bread shops in Norrath cities with their level 1 toons and basically never enter a dangerous area. And there is nothing wrong with this, though I cannot say I have seen anyone this hardcore roleplaying on Al'Kabor.

All EQ players have fun as a goal. The only issue is do you want to have fun killing the biggest things available or do you want to explore and kill all the challenging areas in the game.

Shield of Norrath definitely has advancement as a goal. It just isn't a goal we plan on spending 5 nights out of 7 raiding to get. There are a lot of people who like raiding 5 nights out of 7 and there is a place for them, Temerity. Temerity has done very well advancing through the game, and I might add negotiating the political hurricanes that have engulfed our small population from time to time.

Shield of Norrath will probably always invite people from other guilds on our raids. Whether or not anyone agrees on how 'pure' a kill was or whether it 'counts' doesn't matter, but for the record, no chickens were harmed in our Gorenaire kill. The 'rules' are there to make sure you don't invite a Time-equipped friend to your Kael-equipped guild raid, not to be a rules lawyer.

Shield of Norrath commonly refers to itself as 'a guild that raids' rather than a 'raiding guild'. Whatever term you use, I think SoN has qualified for it since taking down Naggy and Vox, and we are no less of a raiding guild than DC and Temerity, the only difference is the pace at which we do it.

- Sayre

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Coercer, Temerity

SoN has a long tradition to welcome guests on raids, sometimes by necessity, sometimes to share the little we know with our guests, always for the pleasure of companionship. That's how we play the game.

In the end our raiding core is well prepared, disciplined, and targets keep falling. As in any other guild, over time players have left, more have come, and our dps and raid abilities have grown tremendously and steadily. We have a lot of fun raiding but also have jobs, husbands, wives, kids, parents, studies to deal wtih. So we are going the happy lazy way through the content, no pressure. Those of us who are hungry for uber lootz right away usually jump ship for where they are harvested, and it's all right . We are here to build up together for the long run and enjoy every tiny step of it.

Yes, we have a blast when we take down a boss for the first time, and we dig the bragging rights once in a while, and we look forward taking bigger and meaner mobs down. We will chuckle if we hit the official tier 2 category on this thread, and the next ones. But we will keep inviting friends to share the fun until we run out of content on this game.

Sometimes a little healty competition and bragging rights are part of the fun. Just like talking trash to your freinds can be fun.

Plus, since Temerity is the only bona-fide superpower on Al'Kabor, beating Temerity at something becomes a challenge which makes the rest of us stronger. It gives us something to strive for and generally raises the level of play on the server.

I think Temerity is good for our server, and so is competition...as long as it remains friendly competition.

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Raziel Sorcerin - 53 Human Disciple of <Destiny>
Lassic Morinehtar - 54 Iksar Heretic of <Destiny>

it's a bit like this.

At the olympics this year they didn;t let the americans wave flags in the parade.

Thats how I feel about temeirty. I dont' like to see a guild thats so succesful to rub it in peoples face jsut becuase they can. This is no offense to temeirty since they are much better nowadays so dont flame my ass

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Roneb - 65 Warrior
<Temerity>

"It's just like a mini-mall" Sammy Stevens

it's a bit like this.

At the olympics this year they didn;t let the americans wave flags in the parade.

I wonder why

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Roneb - 65 Warrior
<Temerity>

"It's just like a mini-mall" Sammy Stevens

Because the world hates America and Americans.

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Proud member of Temerity
GM Fletcher (250) Jewel Craft (234) Brewing (226) Smithing (224 + 15%) Pottery (234) Baking (246) Pure Hell (226)
Wulfgar - Lvl 52 Barbarian Warrior, LFG in PoFire!
chown -R us ./base

exactly. We like our country too much I guess oh well that should be a rant get back on opic hehe sorry

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Roneb - 65 Warrior
<Temerity>

"It's just like a mini-mall" Sammy Stevens

What the hell are you talking about, Roenb?

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Raziel Sorcerin - 53 Human Disciple of <Destiny>
Lassic Morinehtar - 54 Iksar Heretic of <Destiny>

Responding to a post about the Horde doing Kelorek`Dar - we didn't do it Horde-only. We had a few Destiny and non-guilded friends along. We could have done it, Horde-only, but have not done so, yet. Also, The Horde killed Venril Sathir, yesterday, but he was the non-lifetapping version for ranger epic - don't know where that would fall on the "tiers" - lol

As a guild we're moving up the tiers, but - as Lan mentioned for Destiny - raiding is not our reason for being. Also, our looting policy is based on RNG, and blind to guild tags. If you're on the raid and you can use the item, you can roll for it. This has allowed us to successfully integrate non-Horde friends and even multi-guild partnerships into our raiding. So the short answer to "do you have to be in a high-end guild..." is no. But you do have to know which guilds are friendly toward non-guild participation in their raids, and are publicly publishing their raid schedule. I'm sure that we're not the only "guild that raids" on the server that'd be of help to non-guilded or non-raiding-guilded people.

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Moof - 60 Tauren Shaman, Guildmaster Legacy of Doomhammer, Malygos Realm
Maligo - 40 Undead Mage
Bene - 40 Troll Priest
Bellicose - 39 Orc Warrior

I believe that version is considered "Venril Sathir's Remains", and is off the bottom of the chart. Technically, there is on "Tier 0", either. It's something we, here at EQMac made up, 'cause we're so lame.



This is one of the reasons for this chart, to help you (generic "you") target the next big challenge for your guild. Getting sick of killing Lodi? Well, look at the chart and see that Kelorek'Dar, Wuoshi or Talendor might be a worthy challenge, but The Va'Dyn or Rhag1 are still a little ways out.

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Nikolai Lianfyrr,
Khati Sha Feral Lord.
GM Tailor (250), GM Smith (250), GM Brewer (250), GM Potter (250), GM Fisherman (200), GM Jeweler (250), Fletcher (220), Chef (200)

I agree that a hierarchical chart showing the separation of the tiers is a good thing to help raid leaders choose new targets, but I largely disagree with my guildy that competition is a good thing.

Right now there is no real competition on this server, save perhaps between DC and SoN if they choose to let it happen. Back when competition between DC and Temerity was raging things sometimes got ugly and there didn't seem to be any real need for the egomaniacal secrecy and acrimonious mudslinging that often resulted. The end result was Temerity fostering the "evil" label as if it was a badge of honour, and DC suffering an exodus that basically handed victory to it's "evil" opponent. Where was the good in any of that?

For my money cooperation and respect between the guilds and the spirit of harmony that grows from those principles goes much farther to showing newcomers that this is an enjoyable place to be than negative and destructive competition.

Competion suggests that there will eventually be a winner and a loser. I don't believe that having losers is a good thing.

_________________
Duchess Lana Mercyhand
Lord Protector of Destiny
Grandmaster Baker/Brewer
Tanks for the memories
~moejoe chamois, 65 shaman~|~cambria silverfir, 65 druid~|~magella summner, 55 mage~

That strikes me as a somewhat narrow view, Lanbana. Why must competition, for the sake of improving oneself and one's friends be a bad thing? When dealing with friendly competition, the traditional ideas of "winner" and "loser" don't really apply. Being first doesn't make you a "winner" any more than being 10th makes you a "loser". We are in a PvE environment. You are a winner by succeeding. You lose only by not trying...

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Former Officer of Unholy Nightmares (R.I.P.) (WRU Necrowench?!)

Before you start leveraging the DC exodus as an argument against guild v. guild competition, Lanbana: that is hardly the real, full story.

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Retired Temerity meat shield.