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updated OP

after a talk with chapp, i decided to rewrite a bunch of sections to make them clearer to understand, notably "Mob Level"

no new information tho this time

updated op

this confirms that higher levels suck xp away from lower levels

a 10 level differential results in an (approx) 6.67% difference, so if the penalty is linear, then that is (approx) .67% per level of differential. not going to update OP until someone actually spades to provide better data

thx to fanglore, he did it for science

Impressive and very useful analysis.

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I come back to you now, at the turn of the tilde~

I don't really agree with this analysis, or at least with the wording of it. Even if there were no group bonuses at all, if every group member contributes equally to the long term kill rate (in the case of some classes, very indirectly), you're still better off with as many toons as you can fit into a group, if nothing else for the company and the flexibility on targets it gives you. The group bonus system is supposed to offset concerns about groupmates who are relative slackers, or general inefficiencies that arise from group coordination and "paying" for abilities that often go unused for long stretches (e.g. rez). I guess it pays for the extra setup effort putting a group together as well.

Generally speaking, with bonuses in mind, adding group members who aren't total slackers is always a win at any group size. There are anomalies at the 3-4 and 5-6 boundaries, but I'd word them like this:

If you've got a group of size 3, there's absolutely no reason not to add a 4th toon to the group. Even if the 4th toon is AFK the whole time, the original 3 will make slightly faster XP than they did without him, and the 4th guy gets a bunch of 'free XP' to boot. If the 4th guy is contributing at all, it's an even bigger win.

If you add a 6th man to a 5-man group, and the 6th man doesn't 'pull his own weight' relative to the average contribution of the other 5, it's a very slight net loss. If they're contributing reasonably, nothing really changes.

There's no need to actively discourage people from filling up that last group slot with other human beings. And unless the 6th is AFK, odds are good he's on par with the other 5's average contribution.

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According to the information Hobart gave us back in 2004, there is no penalty for a 6th party member. All group members should gain the same amount of xp for their level with 5 or 6 party members. The advantage is that the 6th member should make the killing go faster/smoother so there is less downtime.

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Proud member of Temerity
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cabot you are 100% right, i reworded op!





this is false according to my/rw's spading (post 2004, i might add), unless you have some new data to present?
it sounds like you are just trying to help and i appreciate it!
that said, anecdotal evidence is useless for this thread

ive been doing some spading over the past x months on and off.

1)

a level 55 gets 5% AAXP per kill from a level 55 mob in nightmare solo
a level 58 gets 8% AAXP per kill from a level 58 mob in nightmare solo

this proves that AAXP is not calculated directly based on the mob level differential, since in both of these cases, the differential should be 0 and therefore give the same amount of AAXP.

2)

while soloing gargs in PoN (who are level 57):

24 kills per AA @ level 52
21 kills per AA @ level 53
19 kills per AA @ level 54
18 kills per AA @ level 55
17 kills per AA @ level 56
16 kills per AA @ level 57 (with 2% AA left over)
16 kills per AA @ level 58 (with 5% AA left over)
16 kills per AA @ level 59 (with 6% AA left over)
15 kills per AA @ level 60
16 kills per AA @ level 61 (with 0% AA left over)

in this case the optimal level to kill level 57 mobs is actually level 60 (a +3 differential), which seems counter-intuitive.

3)

testing on frogs in the plane of storms gives different results.

while soloing frogs (who are level 60) with 4 OOR group members (test repeated twice):

27% AAXP per kill @ level 55
...
32% AAXP per kill @ level 58
33% AAXP per kill @ level 59
34% AAXP per kill @ level 60
33% AAXP per kill @ level 61
31% AAXP per kill @ level 62

in this case the optimal level to kill level 60 mobs is actually level 60 (a 0 differential).

is level 60 is always the best level to get AA, no matter what the mob level is?

4)

killing even-cons in PoN with 4 OOR group members:

5 kills per AA @ level 59 (with 2% AA left over)
5 kills per AA @ level 60 (with 12% AA left over)
5 kills per AA @ level 61 (with 16% AA left over)

so this is not the case.

5 kills per AA @ level 62 (with 20% AA left over)
5 kills per AA @ level 63 (with 24% AA left over)

this would make sense if AAXP awarded is based on the differential between mob level and 50 (which is what chapp proposed to me). but it does not give any insight into what defines optimal pc level in relation to the mob level, which is the overarching goal behind this round of spading.

next i will test level 59-61 mobs from pc levels 59-61, but i'd welcome thoughts from people who are smarter than me (Ravenwing, Cabot, etc.) in a better way to empirically determine this

I've always thought level 60 was the fastest xp although people have told me differently. I only go by my impression/feeling about it though. I don't collect a bunch of numbers and wear out a calculator or use OOR group members. Just plain old group xp - whatever groups I can get for them. I frequently stop and do some important or desirable AAs at 60 but then the urge to move on to reach important or desirable level 65 spells overtakes me.

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Rysia Belladonna 65 Wood Elf Rogue
Daria Vervain 65 Wood Elf Druid
Carolee Nightshade 65 Gnome Necromancer
Eraiya Meadowsweet 65 High Elf Enchanter
Kylie Santolina 65 Gnome Magician
Therma Nuclear 65 Dark Elf Wizard
Lillie Hawthorn 65 Human Monk
Karia Melilot 65 Halfling Druid
Lisbeth Artemisias 65 Iksar Shaman
Portia Carrera 65 Half Elf Bard

<Temerity>

I figured out the math a bit for the OOR group exp along with needing the 1.5x level range and came up with the following levels that would be able to give the group bonus and up to which level, I've started this at level 10 (figured everyone can get to 10 easily enough):

level 10 works up to level 14
level 14 works up to level 20
level 20 works up to level 30
level 30 works up to level 44
level 44 works up to level 65

This is solely based on the 1.5x rule, not level con exp, so I'm not sure about the higher levels. Basically the idea is to have 5 sets of afk chars at the different levels and group with them according to the level the character to level is at. Also note that some of the calculations are a bit off because I erred on the side of caution and lowered the level range just to be sure (it would have still been 5 sets anyway).

So if you're levels 10-14, have the rest of the group at level 10. For 15-20 switch to the level 14 set and so on. Maybe even having the groups setup in specific zones based on the range being worked on. I'm not really sure about the 44s to help get up to 65, may need another set in between if only to get the afk part of the group into the zone.

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Ekauq - Human - Monk
Nojem - Wood Elf - Druid
Dreakus - Dark Elf - Necromancer

it’s not that it isn't right, it’s that there isn’t a law to say that it’s wrong

lol, thats adorable

fortunately, you misunderstand how the oor exploit functions

from op:



aka you can use a level 1 to oor any level at all

i will update op now to elucidate this

Wait... I can get triple the exp by having 4 OOR group members. This is madness!

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so this has be tested with oor level 1s and a level 64/65?

and adorable? really?

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Ekauq - Human - Monk
Nojem - Wood Elf - Druid
Dreakus - Dark Elf - Necromancer

it’s not that it isn't right, it’s that there isn’t a law to say that it’s wrong

yes

please read the entire thread before asking questions

thank you

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Ekauq - Human - Monk
Nojem - Wood Elf - Druid
Dreakus - Dark Elf - Necromancer

it’s not that it isn't right, it’s that there isn’t a law to say that it’s wrong