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 Post subject: So... what?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:51 am 
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I have a question for all you EQers out there.

Its short.

Why does everyone I have met say "OMG EQ2 IS MORE LIKE WOW THAN EQ"?

Reason I ask is this.

EverQuest II - Release Date: November 8th 2004

World of Warcraft - Release Date: November 29th 2004

I realize beta testing and stuffs was all done on both of these games probably A LONG time before either was released but... why am I thinking most of the stuff like quest logs, maps, and stuff WoW had like EQ2 was added to EverQuest with expansions BEFORE Sony released EQ2?

Maybe I didn't do my homework? Can someone explain? Confirm or deny?

I used to think Sony and blizzard used to send spies into each others MMO labs or whatever but then I realized how darn silly that was!

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 Post subject: Re: So... what?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:49 pm
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Elizabeth wrote:
I have a question for all you EQers out there.

Its short.

Why does everyone I have met say "OMG EQ2 IS MORE LIKE WOW THAN EQ"?

Reason I ask is this.

EverQuest II - Release Date: November 8th 2004

World of Warcraft - Release Date: November 29th 2004

I realize beta testing and stuffs was all done on both of these games probably A LONG time before either was released but... why am I thinking most of the stuff like quest logs, maps, and stuff WoW had like EQ2 was added to EverQuest with expansions BEFORE Sony released EQ2?

Maybe I didn't do my homework? Can someone explain? Confirm or deny?

I used to think Sony and blizzard used to send spies into each others MMO labs or whatever but then I realized how darn silly that was!


These are just my own observations, but judging by the time I've spent playing all 3 games, I'd say that EQ2 and WoW are considered more similar mainly in terms of how they were streamlined, in a more linear fashion. EQ (original) was always more of a "drop into the world and do your own thing" kind of game, so I imagine it probably seems like a pretty big shift to what many WoW/EQ2 generation players are used to.

As for game mechanics and UI additions, WoW certainly took some ideas from grandfather mmos like EQ (I believe even one of the old EQ devs worked on WoW at one point or another), they just streamlined them to be more accessible to all age ranges. The same can be said for EQ/EQ2 and ideas that they used from Blizzard as well. Just like most things in life, a lot of borrowing and rehashing emanates throughout the gaming industry :).

I can't remember exactly when the maps and other things like that were added to EQ, but I'm sure one of the vets around here can fill us in.


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 Post subject: Re: So... what?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:28 pm 
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I've played EQ2 for about 20 hours or so on my best friend's account when it first came out, and I've seen WoW enough to know the basic gist of it...... Both have "class ability" combos that you have to use for best effect, which is sort of kinda the same in EQMac, but the difference is in EQ2 and WoW it visually tells you what to do and when to hit the buttons. In EQMac/Classic, you had to think for yourself and figure it out. Also instanced zones = yuck, instanced raids = yuck, there's really no penalty for failure from what I can tell (other than the time spent in the instance).

In WoW I'm not a fan of level 80s doing 80,000 points of damage with nukes and abilities. At some point it's just percentage of damage dealt to a mob... dealing 90k damage or whatever seems like an appeal to 14 year olds who are used to bragging about how uber their Pokemon deck is. (Sigmund Freud, anyone?)

I also don't like the "level range" displayed on equipment, the constant reminder of "oh snap, you're leather vest is so old and crappy now! you should get a silvery leather vest for levels 6-8! oh snap, you're silvery leather vest is so old and crappy now that you're level 9, you need a goldilocks leather vest or you'll be a n00b forever!" That's one of the things that I really hated about Dragon Age, too. My level 20 wizzy box has absolutely fine gear until he starts raiding, even with 10 open slots.... I have the feeling that the same approach in WoW would get responses like "wtf why are you naked you n00b?"

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 Post subject: Re: So... what?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:13 pm
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It's mainly a reference to quest hubs, exclamation points over quest giver's heads, and other "easier" modifications to gameplay like that. Point A to point B questing with tunnel vision on as long as you're getting quest progress.

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 Post subject: Re: So... what?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:01 am
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Tradeskills are similar too with the whole tradeskill nodes thing. (Not the interface of course.) Plus how big a part questing is in leveling.

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 Post subject: Re: So... what?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:41 am 
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I played EQ2 from launch through Kunark expansion which was roughly somewhere in late 2007.

They experienced some dramatic changes - the start of the game was pretty much group required content. They had things called ^^^ heroic mobs. Sometimes they came along with little buddies that were weaker mobs that were ^ or ^^ type mobs. Basically it was dangerous to run around even green con ^^^. Worst of all, you couldn't "split" multiple mobs in one of those encounters. Either you took them all on, or the heroic would reset. There was very little creativity in addressing that from a player perspective. Either bring a group to handle the mob, or it wasn't possible.

Along the way, they changed that to make it more "WOW"-ish and it ended up from that change you could solo (generally via quest xp) from 1-60 in a couple days. I did this both on a troubador and an illusionist - both support classes (although both ended up being great dps on raids - so much so that my illusionist's ZW DPS on raids was in the 5-6k range, and on some encounters I was over 10k, topping out around 15k dps)

When they instituted AA's as we know them here on EQ, they were based not on grinding out xp, but on killing named mobs (that weren't grey con), discovering locations in zones (you got xp for that), discovering server first items and finishing quests. In effect, you had to do nearly every little quest to cap out on AA. You could get around the grey con named issue by mentoring which effectively means you were a superpower for your level and basically were powerleveling lowbies.

Further, with AA, you were capped at a certain amount you could spend (24 in each of the two trees from different expansion). In effect, you couldn't have every AA that was available, and had to strategically choose which ones to get. It basically came down at this point to which was the "optimum" AA setup.

Raid content was pretty annoying early in the game, as spells cast by raid mobs would crush a tank. They had issues where the ability to hold aggro was based off of casting buffs on yourself over and over to generate aggro and hold it. That changed, and it became a bit better to be a tank.

No complete heals - clerics cast reactive spells that healed the person each time they were hit. Shaman put a "ward" that basically had so much damage it would absorb (like rune) before it went away. Druids had IIRC a regeneration over time spell. Basically you needed to have all 3 types casting and recasting those "heals" as they faded from either duration or damage taken. In group content you could get away with just a single healer - but in raids you needed 3 with the MT and then at least one per group. Also to note, a Cleric and an Inquisitor were the same "class" so their reactive heals did not stack. Same went for the shaman and druid lines. So you couldn't have 6 types of heals on a main tank, only 3.

A lot of the raiding was stuff like, "Who has the yellow outline"? Go kill X mobs before they get to the raid mob or they blow up and basically wipe the raid. Epic raid encounters (avatars) basically was setup where you'd experience waves upon waves of mobs that you had to kill before the next set repopped. All the while, you needed DPS on the Avatar themself.

Instances were a HUGE thing. Think like... LDoN. There were named, and trash. You had no timer and could take as long as you wanted to clear it - but your timer to re-enter the instance was generally set at 12 hours for group instances and 3-5 days for raid instances.

Loot was Trash - Tradeskilled - Legendary - Fabled. Fabled only dropped from Master Chests. Master Chests generally dropped from named mobs and you'd either get a "Master I" spell for a random class (I think there were like 20+ classes) or a Fabled item. 99% of all fabled items were no drop, but the Master spells were tradeable - and there was definitely a market for them. I remember running the same instances day after day after day after day to get the drop I needed once I was raid geared out.

Tradeskills were much "easier" and was more of a game than anything. However, in order to tradeskill you had to harvest "nodes" out in the open zones. They were tiered from tiers 1 through XX, where each tier corresponded to the level tradeskiller you were. You couldn't fail combines in the same way that we do here (click combine, hope for success). You had to "massage" the tradeskill UI via a minigame using a handful of tradeskill spells you learn throughout the tier. Some increased durability of the item (to make it max quality), some increased progress (you needed max progress to finish the item and end the game). All in all tradeskilling was a one way road. You chose the skill you wanted, and that was it. You'd have to make alts to make other things.

Note in the beginning there was a TON if interdependency between tradeskillers. Alchemists had to make components for just about every other tradeskiller so they could do their combines. You'd get requests for 200+ reagents so someone could make a "run" at their tradeskill. Later on, they removed interdependency entirely and basically removed the market for tradeskillers to make money between themselves (my server even had a guild of JUST tradeskillers). When I left, 99% of the stuff made via tradeskill was crap with the exception of food and drink (which increases your out of combat health and mana regeneration).

Overall I think EQ2 was a great game, but when it became a solo/quest game, the market for tradeskills went the way of the dinosaur, and obtaining loot was based off of logging in every night, running 3-4 instances in as many hours and then logging for lack to do - I left the game.


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