EQMac.com

Curious.

With rotations in place, who really gives a fuck what a guild does with the mobs on their rotation or how it goes about killing them.

The guild earned the spot in the rotation, they could kill none or all of the mobs as soon as they popped and it makes ZERO impact on everyone else's enjoyment of the game.

Now if theres an issue on contested mobs, particularly hotly contested or even just a progression mob - I understand some bitching and probably rightly so.

Realistically, and I don't mean to pigeon hole a single guild, because the gripes are from a diverse group of people, but the biggest gripes seem to come from guild members that are now in the Plane of Time - and they are bitching about content that is multiple tiers behind and below them.

Further, it has been stated over and over as a counter-point that no matter how well geared people are, that you need people behind all the boxes that Dark Conquest fields in order to progress in PoP - which is the real threat here - or is it?

So even if gear was being obtained in a manner distasteful to members of the server - that gear will never progress the guild into content you enjoy, nor does it affect you unless it infringes on content you desire to maintain the status quo on (Elementals).

And if you really distaste the manner that Zamiel has utilized, you may want to re-evaluate accepting applications from members of Dark Conquest who obtained equipment in similar manners before he even arrived. I don't need to name names, every knows who everyone is that moved on.

Basically, you can demonize Zamiel all you want, but as guilds you are collectively hypocrites if you've been accepting members from Dark Conquest. We've been through this before that certain things with DC's movement through VT was questioned - WAY before Zamiel every applied.

This thread is like a timewarp. I've seen every post facto justification for shameless exploiting that I can imagine.

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Mushka the Space Lizard, Transcendent, Temerity

Are you talking about Temerity? Temerity doesn't recruit members from other guilds. This has been a long standing policy.

The officers can back me up, but let me stress here for the record: Temerity does not have any equipment requirements. Mind you, if you can't be bothered to upgrade using some easily accessible loot (like trade skill loot), well, that would be lazy. On the other hand, no one will care if you have never stepped in VT.

What is more important is your attitude. If you outright condone cheating, that would probably be a negative.


Personally, I am not ready to condemn every Dark Conquest member just because one of the guild officers is a jerk.

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Kwelynin, warrior <Temerity>
Cildibusu, wizard
Maxx, bard

So wait, you don't have members in your guild who may or may not have benefitted from events people on this thread find unsavory? Its hard to save face when you allow them to app and then tag them as such - and then condemn the guild, its officers, and members whence they came from in the same breath.

I'm not saying you personally have - but if your guild has - it sure puts a new twist on who has a moral authority in this rant.

So are you saying that they are permanently tainted?

That's surely a novel approach to try and retain membership.

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Wiz, this is the argument I've been making in this entire thread.

There are significant voices in this thread who have argued that it's okay to share / transfer accounts, including a number from your guild. That forms the basis of my entire argument.

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Sinnder, Enchanter of Destiny
Joshore, Druid of Destiny

I am not particularly interested in answering Reksar's odd insinuations, especially since they don't really make any sense. But I do want to address this particular issue to any of the individuals who may have been involved.

I can understand how a player would get involved in this level of cheating if so ordered to by a raid leader. An important part of raiding is cooperation, and a part of cooperation is taking orders from the raid leadership, even if you sometimes don't understand exactly what is going on. These are the kind of things that can strain long-held friendships.

My message is the following: you can change. This community is very forgiving. Refute the actions you find distasteful, and go back to playing the game the way you want to see it played. Don't let others make this choice for you.

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Kwelynin, warrior <Temerity>
Cildibusu, wizard
Maxx, bard

I'm not quite sure what in the hell you saying now. Is it that if someone does anything wrong that it justifies another to do worse? Or is it something else?

Whatever it is, just make sure you understand that every time you've opened your mouth on this god forsaken thread your words have given credence to those that are exploiting.

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Let me spell it out for you then:

You cannot claim a moral high road if you accept individuals who went along with unsavory methods for any period of time.

If you want the moral high road, you would have to have denied their applications from the get go due to guilt by association.

If you want to keep the moral high road, you would have to purge yourself of them if you find out in hindsight.

Otherwise you have no moral authority to judge others. Guilt by association is a bitch for all involved, indirectly or directly.

I like you, Reks, but it sounds to me like you're beating up on a "moral high ground" strawman.

It's simple, really. SOE makes the rules and chooses when to enforce them. If you break them often enough, you'll get caught and eventually banned. Even if someone was boxing your toon. Even if you were just along for the ride with a small time sploiter who doesn't have the chops to beat easy mobs straight up.

At the risk of (re)stating the obvious, the reason people care about this stuff is because we play this game together in a shared, persistent world. I couldn't care less if Zamiel needs to turn off the fog of war in order to win at Starcraft. Sure, that might make him a gimp, but it doesn't even remotely affect me. Once he fires up ShowEQ, though, suddenly the dynamics of my game change. I resent that.

This is all beside the point, though, because at the end of the day SOE decides what's a bannable offense, not us. People have talked a lot about how Zamiel manipulates game mechanics, but I think the important point that's come to light here is how he manipulates people. Devour fell for it. I fell for it. I know half a dozen other folks who fell for it, some for longer than others. Once you understand the game, though, it all becomes pretty obvious and, in one gnome's opinion, a little bit pathetic.

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Pithy Deathwish, manic mechanic of <Temerity>

Refuse, rubbish, filth, slime, muck and other alt-putrescence:
[ Drat | Dart | Zounds | Slouch | Pouch ]

I wasn't really beating up on it Pity, just confronting people - in general - trying to take a moral high ground when clearly there isn't one for the majority of parties involved in this rant.

I think thats a point we can all accept.

I am curious as to how Zamiel has manipulated people in recent times and not in his younger and distant past.

So, is Shakerpaging an exploit? Or just utilization of advanced understanding of game mechanics to have an outcome that may not have been what the designers intended?

I ask since there is a palpable hush-hush about the details of the technique, yet I have witnessed it occurring quite a few times.

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Suriinya, Dark Elven Enchantress
<Destiny>

Game mechanics, with very high risk and high reward.

A similar thing that would be an exploit is the old and no longer present whirlwind duel == zone crash = bosses respawn bug.

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I come back to you now, at the turn of the tilde~

True, to become a true part of the taliban you have to get at least one paycheck from the CIA.

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I have a message to deliver to the cute people of the world...if you're cute, or maybe you're beautiful...there's MORE OF US UGLY MOTHERFUCKERS OUT THERE THAN YOU ARE!!
(Frank Zappa)

You didnt see much yet, right? <3

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I have a message to deliver to the cute people of the world...if you're cute, or maybe you're beautiful...there's MORE OF US UGLY MOTHERFUCKERS OUT THERE THAN YOU ARE!!
(Frank Zappa)